Hello, this is Jen Rubin, and this is Jen Rubin's Green Room.

We talk a lot on this show about democracy and the fear that many of us have well placed, that authoritarians will take

charge and take over. I think too often, though, we think of this as a specific problem to the

United States and a personal problem, if you will, tied to Donald Trump, or at least to the Republican

Party.

And while it is true that one party has slipped off the edge into neo-fascism, it's also

true that we have certain structural impediments that make democracy different and difficult

in the United States and really thwart the will of the people.

Some of those protections are a good thing. They protect minority rights, and some of them are not.

And we're lucky this week to have two guests who have written a terrific book on the subject,

tyranny of the minority, Stephenerny of the Minority,

Stephen Levitsky and Daniel Zblatt, and they are here to explain to us exactly what those

problems are and what we do about it. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having us. All right. So I'll

start with you, Stephen, so we don't have both of you talking at the same time.

How Did you meet Daniel? This is your second book. Your first was a huge hit, How Democracies Die.

Did you guys know each other professionally before this? Did you run into another at one of those cocktail parties you're supposed to have up in Cambridge?

No, no. We go further back than that.

We were in graduate school together at UC Berkeley.

I was a few years ahead of Daniel, but we knew each other a bit in graduate school.

And then Daniel arrived at Harvard two or three years after me.

And so we've both been colleagues in the Harvard government department for two decades. Terrific. Well, I am a Cal alum, both undergraduate and law school.

I'm sure you're both much younger than I am. So, but it's good to have you both. Daniel, the book is a little bit of a downer.

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