Thinking Basketball podcast. My name is Ben. Welcome back to episode four of our best peaks of the 21st century, 25 peaks from 25 seasons. The players just keep getting better and better. And since I lose track of

what episode we're on every time we start, Cody, I think I need to recap, uh, mostly for me.

I suppose if you're listening along and you can just consecutively stream the episodes,

maybe this is, um, helpful as well. I don't know. But we had a ton of

honorable mentions that could have not just been in the 25 position, but been in a number of

these, you know, slots that we're talking about here, 25, 24, 23, 22, some of them even up to the 21st player, which we'll talk about

today. And then we had number 25, Jason Kidd. We had Jason Tatum at number 24. Remember,

Cody Tatum had that narrower range by virtue of just being like, I think, a brown belt and everything.

So his floor, I feel very comfortable about his floor, but also I don't think he can have

that high of a ceiling.

And then last time we talked about defensive superstars.

There's only a handful of defensive superstars in this series.

There's probably only about three or four more big time defenders that

we'll talk about in the rest of the series. And of course, those other players are much better

offensive players, be it traditionally or just in terms of being well-rounded than the guys we

talked about last time, Dwight Howard and Draymond Green at 23 and 22.

When you're that good defensively, you know, that's, that moves you up the list quite a bit.

Anything to say before we jump in? Do you have any thoughts on what the ground we've covered so

far before we jump forward today.

Well, I think that's what's so cool about doing this series is you see all of the avenues

that these guys can take to have such huge impact.

Like we talked about, I think, especially Jason Kidd and Dremont Green, have these like very

...