Hi there, I'm Jason Gots, and you're listening to Think Again, a Big Think podcast.

I don't even know where to begin with this one. You've probably heard of Cambridge Analytica.

Maybe you know they're a company that did some nefarious things involving Facebook and the 2016

U.S. presidential elections.

If you're anything like me, you don't know the half of it.

If you get through this episode without wanting to move to a remote hut in the Arctic Circle,

I will personally refund this hour of your life.

My guest today is Christopher Wiley, author of MindFuck, Cambridge Analytica, and The Plot to Break America. In high school, he found himself on the outside of lots of social circles.

Computers and hacker culture gave him community, identity.

From there, it's a long, strange trip through progressive politics in Canada to military sci-ops in London,

to helping Steve Bannon and the billionaire Robert Mercer

build the most powerful psychological weapon of mass destruction in existence, as Chris describes it,

one that very likely won the presidency for Donald Trump and the Brexit vote.

Chris was 24 at the time.

When the scale and the consequences of Cambridge Analytica got too big to ignore,

he turned whistleblower and none of our lives, his definitely included, will ever be the same.

Welcome to think again, Chris.

Thanks for having me.

The thing that stands out for me, like having read your book, I mean, first of all,

there was a lot of information in there that I didn't really know before I'd heard bits and pieces,

but the very kind of peripheral and provisional. a lot of information in there that I didn't really know before I'd heard bits and pieces.

But the very kind of peripheral and provisional way that most of us follow this kind of news when it comes out, like, I mean, that I had only grabbed bits and pieces.

...