21.04: Deconstructing the Hero's Journey

Writing Excuses

Mary Robinette Kowal, DongWon Song, Erin Roberts, Dan Wells, and Howard Tayler

Business, Careers, Fiction

4.6 • 1.4K Ratings

🗓️ 25 January 2026

⏱️ 26 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In this episode, our hosts take on the Hero’s Journey—where it came from, why it endures, and why it can make writers uneasy. They break it down as a tool (and not a rule), exploring how pattern recognition works in storytelling without turning structure into a formula. Along the way, they discuss reluctant heroes, mentors, departures, and returns, using familiar examples from fantasy, film, and beyond. The conversation also digs into how stories can satisfy expectations—or deliberately invert them—without becoming predictable or tropey. Homework: Take a simple outline of the Hero’s Journey (we’ll include one in the liner notes). On an index card or Post-it, list as many stories, films, or shows as you can that follow this pattern, just to see how and where it shows up. ANNOUNCEMENTS: 2/15 Cruise Prices Increase The final WXR cruise* sets sail for Alaska in September 2026—get your tickets now before prices increase on February 15th! Credits: Your hosts for this episode were Erin Roberts, DongWon Song, and Howard Tayler. It was produced by Emma Reynolds, recorded by Marshall Carr, Jr., and mastered by Alex Jackson. Join Our Writing Community! Writing Retreats Newsletter Patreon Instagram Threads Bluesky TikTok YouTube Facebook Our Sponsors: * Check out HomeServe and use my code homeserve.com/excuses for a great deal: https://www.homeserve.com * Check out Talkiatry and use my code Talkiatry.com/WX for a great deal: https://www.talkiatry.com Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/writing-excuses2130/donations Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Transcript

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0:00.0	This episode of writing excuses has been brought to you by our listeners, patrons, and friends.
0:05.6	If you would like to learn how to support this podcast, visit www.com.
0:12.0	Slash writing excuses.
0:15.2	Season 21, episode 4.
0:19.3	This is writing excuses.
0:21.9	Deconstructing the hero's journey.
0:24.2	Tools not rules.
0:25.6	Four writers by writers.
0:27.4	I'm Howard.
0:28.2	I'm Dong Wan.
0:29.1	I'm Aaron.
0:30.2	And today we are putting paid on tools, not rules, because we're going to talk about
0:37.0	the hero's journey. and I just need to
0:39.9	preface this with with a whole preamble about anxiety of influence and hero with a
0:47.9	thousand faces and the fact that many of us look at this and think man I don, I don't want to read that Joseph Campbell book,
0:56.9	because then everything I write will end up conforming to this colonizing, culturally appropriating
1:05.6	whatever.
1:06.3	And you know what?
1:07.6	You're not wrong about what the hero's journey might be, but we're not here to present it
1:13.5	to you as a set of rules. We're here to present it to you as a useful toolbox. And for me,
1:19.5	I've found that anxiety of influence always, always, always, always manifests less. The more I know and the better I understand the thing
1:32.2	that I'm afraid of.
	...

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