Populism posits an opposition between an establishment and the people.

It's not so much a political ideology as the opening stage to a political policy or position.

In Trump, you know, in bodies that there wasn't a lot of ideological content there.

Whereas Bannon, he stands out as being someone who is distinctly intellectual and curious.

He thought Trump's role in history was to be a destroyer.

Trump was meant to come into the United States federal governments and just destroy things, tear things apart.

And by doing that, he'd make space for creation.

Trump didn't like that.

Trump saw himself as a creator.

Hello, welcome back to the Brendan O'Neill show with me, Brendan O'Neill.

And my special guest this week, Benjamin Title Bound.

Benjamin, welcome to the show.

It's great to be with you, Bannon.

So Ben, there's a lot I want to ask you about, particularly, of course,

in relation to the populist right, the far right, as some people refer to it.

These right-wing, broadly nationalist movements that have been gaining in stature and power in the US

and in Europe over the past few years, you've written extensively about the populist right,

particularly in your book War for Eternity,

the return of traditionalism and the rise of the populist right.

And I really wanted to dig down with you into some of the ideas behind this movement

and the fortunes of these various movements, whether they can sustain themselves,

where things might go next and all those kinds of things.

...