The following is a conversation with Jordan Ellberg, a mathematician at University of Wisconsin,

and an author who masterfully reveals the beauty and power of mathematics in his 2014 book,

How Not to Be Wrong in His New Book, just released recently called Shape.

The Hidden Geometry of Information, Biology, Strategy, Democracy, and Everything Else.

Quick mention of our sponsors.

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As a side note, let me say that geometry is what made me fall in love with mathematics

when I was young.

It first showed me that something definitive could be stated about this world through intuitive

visual proofs.

Somehow, that convinced me that math is not just abstract numbers, devoid of life, but

a part of life, part of this world, part of our search for meaning.

As usual, I'll do a few minutes of ads now.

I try to make these interesting, but I give you time stamps, so if you skip, please tell

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I don't do ads in the middle.

I think, for me at least, they get in the way of the conversation.

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