I'm so glad you're joining us for Java with Julie. We are at Wisdom Tea House, of course, having our favorite Java and tea.

And as always, I've invited a couple amazing women to join me in this conversation.

So let me tell you who's having coffee with me today.

First, you know Linda Dillo.

Linda, you are with me all the time. I just appreciate that.

The wisdom you bring, the fun we have. So welcome. It's a joy to be with you, Julie. I love it.

And I still can't get you to drink coffee. Nope, here's my berry bunch tea. Thanks, Joshua. Joshua just

brought the tea. And we have a new guest with us today, Leslie Vernec.

Leslie, you are known throughout the Christian world for a woman who deals with difficult

topics, particularly topics in marriage like domestic violence, like depression.

How do you know when to get out of a marriage?

Those are not casual conversations.

No, and it's kind of been scary to take that role because the church hasn't been willing to really have conversations about that.

So it was really scary for me to even start opening that dialogue with other women and with leaders

because I said we're not talking about something that really needs to be talked about and we sort of do what the prophets of Jeremiah's day did when

we heal the wounds of our people superficially by saying peace peace peace peace peace peace well you are in the

right place then because because what we like to do a job with Julie is we like to talk about

the things that women need to hear about

that the church isn't talking about or they're talking about superficially.

So when I saw that you were coming into town here in Colorado Springs, I was like, we need to talk to Leslie

because I just so appreciate your willingness, not just to address the topic, but to dive deep into it.

And I think Leslie often we think of abuse in marriage, we think of domestic violence

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