188. The Path to Sustainability is Equity
Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast
Persephonica
4.7 • 1.1K Ratings
🗓️ 23 February 2023
⏱️ 60 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Welcome to another episode of Outrage + Optimism, where we examine issues at the forefront of the climate crisis, interview change-makers, and transform our anger into productive dialogue about building a sustainable future.
In this episode, co-hosts Christiana Figueres and Paul Dickinson interview climate leaders Sandrine Dixson-Declève, Co-President of global issues think tank the Club of Rome (the Club), and Johan Rockström, Joint Director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (Potsdam).
Our esteemed guests discuss the 50th anniversary of the Club’s groundbreaking report on the implications of continued worldwide expansion, “Limits to Growth” (Limits), and their recently published collaborative report “Earth for All: A Survival Guide for Humanity (Earth For All).”
Serving as both a sort of update to “Limits,” and a new solutions manual, “Earth For All” goes deep into the interrelationships between global stress points, the consequential scenarios that could lay ahead of us, and the policy recommendations we need to save our future.
It’s a fascinating conversation that covers planetary boundary science, dynamic systems modeling, the social tension index, and whether we can reach aspirational and equitable goals for humanity within our environmental boundaries. Importantly, we explore whether a planetary solution is possible without addressing systemic inequity.
Of course, be sure to stick around for music this week from brand new father/son duo Emrys + Clay.
Don’t miss a minute of this compelling episode!
NOTES AND RESOURCES
To learn more about our planet’s climate emergency and how you can transform outrage into optimistic action subscribe to the podcast here.
Sandrine Dixson-Declève, Co-President of the Club of Rome
Explore The Club of Rome and the original landmark report (including a free download), “Limits to Growth.” An updated version is available here.
Johan Rockström, Director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research
Listen to a previous episode featuring Rockström about the race to zero.
Learn about the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research
Read more or get your own copy of “Earth for All: A Survival Guide for Humanity.”
MUSIC
Emrys + Clay
You can find more of Clay and Emrys on Clay’s Patreon.
Clay has played in bands before. They are:
Clay Carnill
Twitter | Instagram | LinkedIn
It’s official, we’re a TED Audio Collective Podcast - Proof!
Check out more podcasts from The TED Audio Collective
Please follow us on social media!
Twitter | Instagram | LinkedIn
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to Outrage and Optimism. I'm Paul Dickinson and I'm Cristiana Pigeris. |
| 0:18.0 | And Tom is sadly unable to join us for the team recording this week, but Cristiano and I |
| 0:22.8 | are very excited to be bringing you an incredible interview with Sandra and Dixon The Clevve, |
| 0:27.5 | co-president of the club of Rome, and firm friend of the podcast, Johann Rockstrom, |
| 0:31.9 | who will be giving us the highlights and insights from their recent co-authored report and book, |
| 0:37.4 | Earth For All. That's what is music from Clay? Who's the music from? Music this week from Emerson |
| 0:43.7 | and Clay, a new musical duo from Michigan. Thanks for being here. |
| 0:48.8 | So, Cristiano, we are recording this interview a week early because we wanted to make sure we were |
| 1:00.2 | able to bring this fantastic interview with Johann and Sandra into our list is on time. But first, |
| 1:04.9 | how are you? Well, I'm fine, but I am not in my home in the Nikoja Peninsula. I've had to come |
| 1:12.7 | into the city and I notice how I really don't like urban centers anymore. Once you get used to |
| 1:22.1 | very different nature noises, the noises, street noises, just don't wring well in your ears, |
| 1:30.5 | but that's it. That's life. How are you, Paul? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good and I kind of know what you |
| 1:36.4 | mean, but you know, if you grow up in a city, it's weird. You can spend a lot of time kind of |
| 1:40.0 | in country and they're always there and it'll feel a bit strange and then you see street lights |
| 1:43.8 | and tower blocks and think, oh, I'm home. Yeah, I think you and I are on, you and I are an |
| 1:49.7 | opposite ends of the spectrum with respect to noises that we're familiar with. Absolutely, |
| 1:56.7 | absolutely. You can get a little bit too familiar with some of the noises in the city, but that's |
| 2:00.0 | another story, especially if they're a little bit too close. But well, I'm sorry, I'm no longer in |
| 2:04.9 | paradise, but you know, a little bit of mixing it up sometimes allows you to appreciate both that |
| 2:11.0 | tiny bit more. Now, we have two things I wanted to say just briefly. One is I wanted to really |
| 2:18.7 | thank our listeners for taking part in the survey that we undertook, which has been so valuable for |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Persephonica, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Persephonica and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.