So you worked for the FDA for how many years?

From 2011 to 2014.

And what was your role at the FDA?

I was the director of the dietary supplement programs there.

So there was a, it was a division then.

It's under, sorry. Jump a little bit here. It was a division. Now it's an office about 26 people

in charge of dietary supplement policy for the whole country and getting involved in enforcement,

directing inspections, you name it. So how did you get into this, this world of medicine and supplements and all this stuff?

You know, I guess it started, was a college athlete.

So it started there, went to grad school, University of Illinois, trying to discover drugs from plants.

Most people don't realize the majority of our drugs, especially cancer drugs, actually come from plants.

So I started an inter guy named Norman Farnsworth there, who's the

godfather of pharmacognacy, an interesting word. Pharmacognacy is one I've never heard of. Yeah, it's

basically the study of medicines from plants, right? That's kind of where we get everything from,

Chinese medicine, et cetera, so forth. But went there and instead of working on cancer drugs,

there were grants at the time because DeShay, which was the law, which authorized dietary supplements, was new, and NIH had botanical centers of excellence. And so we got one of those grants and kind of just fell into it. There was a lot of regulatory stuff at the time because we were doing clinical trials. So we had to get past I and these and things like that. My advisor was up there in years, and he's like, well, you go to D.C.

And you learn how to do that stuff because I've done to those for too long.

And so kind of got thrown to the wolves, at least to the FDA piece.

That wasn't really what my background was.

It was really as a chemist.

It was a pretty good chemist, but then kind of got switched into more of the regulatory political space just by virtue of that's

what was needed. Right. There's a couple stats here that I'll read them off. I don't correct me if I'm

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