Hello and welcome to the Grenfell Tower Inquiry podcast with me, Sharon Heemans.

This week we heard more evidence from the building research establishment, or BRE,

and what they knew about combustible materials on high-rise buildings.

We learned that a senior figure in the BRE failed to speak up at a meeting with the government

two days after the fire.

The BRE had conducted an experiment on ACM-P-E cord cladding and it had failed spectacularly.

Why not tell the minister?

And the same BRE figure was asked whether she colluded with a senior civil

servant to hold back important information. Did you reach an agreement with Brian Martin before

this meeting that you would speak only when spoken to and give away the barest minimum of

information to the minister that you could? Absolutely not. Let's get started with the evidence then.

Debbie Smith held several roles in the building research establishment as a director

before becoming a managing director in April 2016.

She retired in 2021.

She's held in high esteem in the fire safety industry.

Lee Councils to the Inquiry Richard Millett read an email from an industry body a few days after the Grenfell fire.

Debbie Smith is the god capital letters of fire in the UK and one of the few in Europe.

Definitely her opinion is more than important.

I mean, you may not claim divinity for yourself, but were you ever aware that

you were revered to this extent? No. The BRE was originally a government-funded research laboratory.

It was designed to help understand and advise on the safety of building materials and construction

methods. It was privatised in 1997, but continued to have close links with the government.

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