175. Ex-Director of GCHQ: China, Russia, and the Threats Facing the UK (Jeremy Fleming)

The Rest Is Politics: Leading

Goalhanger

News, Government, Politics

4.6 • 3.2K Ratings

🗓️ 9 February 2026

⏱️ 69 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Do Russia or China represent a bigger risk to UK national security? Why are we underestimating the threat posed by cybercriminals? Who holds the real power - ministers or spies? Rory and Alastair are joined by Jeremy Fleming, formerly of GCHQ and MI5, to answer all this and more. Join The Rest Is Politics Plus: Start your free trial at therestispolitics.com to unlock exclusive bonus content – including Rory and Alastair’s miniseries – plus ad-free listening, early access to episodes and live show tickets, an exclusive members’ newsletter, discounted book prices, and a private chatroom on Discord. Social Producer: Celine Charles Video Editor: Josh Smith Producer: Alice Horrell Senior Producer: Nicole Maslen Head of Politics: Tom Whiter Exec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Thanks for listening to The Restis Politics. Sign up to the Restis Politics Plus. To enjoy ad-free listening, receive a weekly newsletter, join our members chat room and gain early access to live show tickets. Just go to therestispolities.com. That's the restispolities.com.
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0:49.6	Welcome to the rest of politics leading with me, Alice Campbell. And with me, Rory Stewart.
0:53.6	And we are very excited to have somebody who is one of my personal heroes, Sir Jeremy Fleming.
1:00.0	Jeremy Fleming was the head of GCHQ, which is the government signals intelligence agency,
1:05.0	the equivalent of the National Security Agency in the US.
1:08.0	Before that, though, he was a member of the security service, MI5, domestic
1:13.5	intelligence. And he's part of a series that we're now doing with some of the great
1:17.5	intelligence chiefs from the UK and the US. The US, we've done two heads to the CIA,
1:22.7	done David Petraeus and Mike Pompeo, and from the UK. We have done Alex Younger. We have done John Sores and we have done Eliza Manning and Buller from MI5. But this is the first time we've interviewed the head of GCHQ. We're very happy, happy. Thank you for coming on. Well, thank you. It's nice to be here. And that sounds like some daunting company. Yeah. Well, listen, we, I don't know if you listen to our podcast, Jeremy, of course you do.
1:46.1	But you will know that we tend to start our interviews by trying to delve into a little bit
1:51.4	into the, into the past of an interviewee and starting right at the beginning.
1:56.7	So what was your background and what was it in you that led you down the path that ultimately has defined your life, which is spying, intelligence?
2:04.7	Well, I was an accidental spy and I went, bore you with all the details.
2:09.4	Grew up in Hampshire, single mum, three boys, state schools, comprehensive education, sixth form college, and then university read history, mainly
2:19.2	because it was five hours a week.
2:20.8	And I came out of that thinking, well, what am I going to do with my life?
2:24.4	And after a bit of travelling, I decided I better get a proper qualification.
	...

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