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Hello and welcome back to the True Crime Guys podcast. I'm Warren and I'm Michael.

How's everybody doing? Welcome back ready for a fun episode this week.

Some different. Some different. No doubt. Black widow, a black widow husband, right?

So we call it a black widow where? Yeah, you know, freak accidents can happen in life.

They're unfortunate and like, you know, sometimes a spouse dies in a really odd way.

But when it happens multiple times, you have to start looking little sideways at the surviving spouse.

Yeah, when it happens twice to the same person and then, you know, big payouts were involved in both.

This guy had both of his wives that he had over the course of 24 years married to both of them for 12 years each.

Die in some of the most extraordinary, rarest ways possible.

I mean, we'll get into the gritty details, but he went at length to try and make his spouses die in a freakish way.

Right. Right. Two different ways entirely as well. I think he learned from the first one and the second one went all out.

And crazy case. I think it makes you wonder how many failed plans did he have?

How many attempts throughout the years? We know of one. We know what one attempt with the second wife for sure.

That's right. So that'd be interesting. Find out.

Yeah. And I got a great book for this one. We'll talk about on the other side. But let's get into your intro and hear what you got for us this week.

Let's do it, man.

My phone here. Let me try it one more time before I transfield. They don't have this technology.

You're so worried. You're so okay.

Yep. I have one moment. Okay. Hang on.

And I'll introduce who we are when they get the phone.

This is a private meeting. That's my wish.

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