Hi, this is Greg Kielstrom. Welcome to season three of the Agile World, where we discuss customer

employee experience, organizational and workforce transformation, and how business can adapt and

continually improve in an Agile age. The Agile World podcast is brought to you by tech systems,

an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services, and real world application.

For more information, go to techsystems.com. To read more about the topics discussed in the show,

you can go to my website at theagile.world and read my latest articles, or get a copy of my latest

book, The Agile Workforce, now available on Amazon and other retailers. My name is Greg Kielstrom,

and I'm the host of the Agile World podcast. Today we're going to talk about the gap between

leadership, HR, and DevOps in many organizations, and how aligning them can bring better results to

both the individuals within the organization, as well as the success of the organization as a whole.

Tell me, discuss this topic. I'd like to welcome Dwayna Blombsroom, co-founder and CEO of

People Not Tech, an author of the book People Before Tech, to her second time on the show.

Dwayna, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, looking forward to talking again. Let's get started by talking about this disconnect that

I mentioned before, this disconnect between leadership, HR, and DevOps. How about if you start by

describing it for us? What are some of the challenges? Oh, yes. Where to start? Go.

Haven't read that. Go right in. Let me try. A little bit of history of how I ended up

stumbling on this issue in itself. I was almost, what I would say, was a completely different

industry, although it's a different industry than people in Agile. When I started focusing solely

on Agile, really, and the way the teams need to be enabled to function in Agile, it was because

I had arrived at this concept, which was getting me all up in arms, called the human debt, which is,

as I explained in some of my articles, essentially, the human equivalent of the technical debt,

...