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Let's now make sort of a major shift.

You've mentioned very briefly some LGBT themes and you talked a little bit about being openly gay.

What we haven't talked about at all is your experience with these types of issues growing up in the church, outward perfect,

and then your work now as it relates to proposition 8 and activism on behalf of the LGBT community.

So before we talk about that, what are your first recollections of feeling that you were different?

You know, I've always felt kind of different of even when I was a kid.

I did things differently. My grandmother, when I was like 9 and 10 years old, she'd call me Bruce Ann, which was very embarrassing.

I don't know if she saw some things or just was trying to tease me or what, but I didn't take it as a compliment.

I mean, I always knew I was different, but I didn't really understand it.

And then you get into junior high and all the boys start talking about all the girls and that just wasn't what interested me.

But you know, you play along with the, you don't want to get teased or anything so you play along.

You, it gets harder in high school. I mean, I was never good in athletics.

I know you don't have to be gay and I know there are gay athletes that are wonderful athletes.

So that's not, that doesn't really, there's no real parallel there, but at the time I thought that's, you know, that has my whole problem with being not being athletic is the same as all this other stuff.

You know, they're not related. But it's, you know, you start realizing you're actually, you would rather spend time with the boys than with the girls.

And the attraction is not just buddy buddy, it goes beyond that.

So you have to keep it in check and you have to be very, very careful. You live in fear. You just live in fear.

Do you remember the first moment where you, I mean, this would have been what, late 60s, early 70s where you were an adolescent.

This is our early 60s early 60s.

I graduated from high school in 66.

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