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I'll ask you one last question about sexuality, just because it's so important.

I guess there's this idealistic hope within traditional Orthodox believing Mormonism

that homosexuality is somehow a choice, that somehow it's a transgression,

that it's just evil, pure and simple, and that if you find the right therapist

or if you pray and read the scriptures or think the right thoughts

or do athletics and spend more time with the opposite sex that you can ungate yourself in some way.

Have you had any experience with that at all to either validate that hope or to invalidate that hope or expectation?

Well, the becoming un-gay, no, I have not seen any research to validate that.

I've not seen any studies to validate that. I've never met anybody that would validate that experience.

Now I do know of people that choose to stay in a heterosexual relationship, even though they are homosexual.

And there are different ways people do that, some with more success than others.

But the idea that somehow we can change our rousal template is usually not at least right now, not well-founded in research.

So whatever it is that turns you on or gets you sexually aroused is just something that you didn't choose or that's kind of beyond your ability to control?

Yeah, I think a rousal is very difficult to control.

Now what we do with that arousal is obviously where the gospel comes in, right?

Because I mean that's like teenage kids who want to have sex.

So they're getting aroused, which is normal, but we want to help them maybe control that or know what to do with that arousal once it comes up.

Now, so that has done it to do with homosexuality.

But I mean, I think that, yeah, this idea that somehow, and I think there has been quite a bit of studies done, especially back in the 70s and 80s on like electroconvulsive therapy or trying to rewire the brain or, you know, because there's a lot of people who are homosexual who are desperate not to be homosexual.

Because they want to fit into their cultural norm and they want to have a family and they want to kind of follow the normal course that they see most of their culture following.

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