Welcome to the Tech Policy Podcast. I'm Evan Swartrever. On today's show, Tech and Immigration,

on Tuesday, April 18th, a couple days ago, recording this on a Thursday, President Trump put out an

executive order that was mostly about Buy American provisions for procurement for government

projects. But there was a small section of that executive order that dealt with

high-scale immigration, in particular the kind that the tech industry is really interested in.

President Trump ordered four agencies, the Department of Labor, Department of Justice, Department

of State, and Homeland Security to review the H-1B visa program to see what reforms they could make at the executive level and whether companies

are abusing the program. And what does this all mean for immigration and tech and what can we expect

from Congress and the White House this year? Joining me to discuss this is Michael Hayes, senior manager

of government affairs at the Consumer Technology Association, where he advocates for the tech industry

here in Washington, D.C. Michael, thanks for joining the show. Of course. Thanks for having me on.

So, Michael, in general, people have assumed that Trump is skeptical of immigration to say the

least. And one of the big election narratives is that huge swaths of this country feel left behind.

They feel like globalization hasn't helped them. And certainly,

the tech industry was a talking point in that discussion. And if President Trump is ordering a review

of the program, is there any reason to think this isn't bad news for people who want to see more

immigration and tech companies being able to get the talent they think they need

to fill those roles. I think it's important to look at the fact that Congress has a majority of

jurisdiction over the way that this program is run. You know, Trump did order these agencies to look

at the program, to review it, to look for abuse of the program and possible ways to improve it. Even that is not

necessarily a bad thing. We fully recognize that there is abuse in the H-1B system. There are people

that use it for the wrong reason, which is to undercut American jobs, replace Americans with someone

...