Hello, Russell here. I'm excited to share some of my conversation with Nick Hayes with you for nothing.

Nick is an all-fair illustrator, printmaker. He wrote this brilliant book, The Book of

Tress Pass. It's my favourite Christmas present. He talks about all these things where he's

done some trespassing, how land rights are separating us from our land and how they're sort

of not arbitrary but kind of unexamined. Through his charity, right or organisation, right

to Rome, he's campaigning to open up more land for more of us to enjoy the countryside.

In this part of the conversation, which bit of the conversations we used, Jenga?

It was the bit of Brad Ho the pandemic has affected people's relationship with nature.

Why don't you say that in a more staccato way? Why don't you break up every single syllable?

I lost the note. People who have to fast forward that to understand it.

Like you got it. This bit already talks about the pandemic, isn't it?

This is a big hit. I can de-staccato it.

Yeah, I don't want you to de-staccato. I don't see why people should be protected from the truth of how

you communicate. Should they? No, leave it normal. Leave it how it was.

You can listen to more episodes of Under the Skin on luminary, a subscription podcast network

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few episodes of Under the Skin. You'll be ready to stride out into the world with a mask on,

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