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Hello and welcome to the Grenfell Tower Inquiry podcast with me, Kate Lamble.

All of this week was set aside for one important witness,

the manager responsible for health and safety at the Tenant Management Organisation,

which ran the building.

And Janice Ray told the inquiry she was spread

thinly. In an ideal world, there would have been more resources to help her complete her work.

It was a major oversight not to share details of vulnerable residents with a fire risk assessor

before he visited buildings. And the TMO breached the fire safety order when they failed to organise a regular

program to check fire doors. Let's get started with the evidence then. Janice Ray joined the

tenant management organisation in 1996 as a health and safety advisor. In 2011, she became the

TMO's health and safety and facilities Manager. 30 years earlier, she'd completed

a diploma in occupational safety and health, and she kept up to date as a chartered member

of her industry body, which required her to attend regular courses and have her skills assessed.

Janice Ray's job description said she was responsible for the formulation of all health and safety policy.

But in the inquiry, she wouldn't accept that she held the primary operational responsibility for health and safety at the TMO.

The reason I'm hesitating is because so much of it was outside my control.

I recognise these responsibilities, but a lot of these were met by me having to

chase and cajole and harang people who had responsibilities. Once they're allocated to other teams,

I've lost control of them. So my hesitation is that I couldn't be responsible for the overall

control, but I had oversight, I had monitoring, I could escalate, and those were the things that I couldn't be responsible for the overall control, but I had oversight, I had monitoring,

I could escalate, and those were the things that I did and did all the time, but I couldn't

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