We hear this alarming statement that people will make that I didn't get anything out of mass, or that mass is boring. Imagine you're given yourself to your spouse in the marital embrace. In afterwards, they say, I didn't get much out of that. That would be the deepest insult they could have possibly given to you. Jesus Christ offers Himself on the cross for me, for the church, for His bride to sanctify us. And so to say I didn't get anything out of mass is the deepest insult you could possibly give to Jesus Christ because He just gave Himself to you in the Eucharist. This is the art of Catholic. So I've got an important question for you. I want you to pause and really think about this for a moment. Is God more of an idea or a person to you?

And maybe you're like, well, obviously a person, Matthew. God is three persons. Jesus is the second person of the most holy Trinity. He became man and come on. Yeah, I know. But is he actually a person to you? Do you really see him as such, or is he some kind of a ethereal idea floating around up in the heavens? It's a simple but very profound question that affects everything in your spiritual life.

And I think for a lot of us, if we're being honest with ourselves, that we tend to think of God in non-personal terms. Like he's this foresword idea up above. And yeah, I talk to him. I ask him for things. I even praise him and receive him in the Eucharist. But do I really look at him as a person? And if not, how do I do that? How can I develop a truly personal relationship with him? How can I move toward a deeper intimacy with the Lord? Well, that's what we're going to talk about today. And my guess is someone you heard on the art of Catholic, not all that long ago, a former hermit up in North Dakota, and his name is Father Wayne Sattler, and he's become a very dear spiritual friend

and mentor to me since the time of that interview.

And I'm gonna give you the tale of the tape on Father Sattler in just a moment. But first, speaking of personal things, I haven't asked for this personally in a long time, but do me a favor if you would. If you like these episodes that are focused on the interior life, the spiritual life for the art of Catholic.

Please like the video and subscribe to the show.

If you're on an audio app and wanna help,

you know, leave a review on Spotify, Apple, Amazon Music, wherever it is you listen, because it gets that content in front of more people, and I really appreciate it. Now, Father Sattler, I said he was a diocesan hermit for six years, which is weird in and of itself. But and sometimes he would escape the hermitage and go offer retreats for the missionaries of charity. But then he spent a decade as a pastor of a large parish and is now the spiritual director for his home diocese. And he's also the author of two books. And you will find rest, what God does in prayer, which is phenomenal. And you can find a link to our conversation about that down in the show notes. And then his latest book, which is, remain in me, relating to God as a person, not an idea. And that is the topic of today's show. So Father Wayne, welcome back to the art of Catholic. That's truly a pleasure. I thank God for this opportunity to be with you again, Matthew, and to allow

our Lord to hopefully bring other souls closer to him through this time together.

You know, over the last six months or so, you and I have developed a very beautiful relationship.

And I can truly say that our conversation is a mutual spiritual support, a bit of boon to me.

And I'm really grateful for you and your witness for everything in the Catholic life. So thank you. And it would seem that I'm not alone in this as well because I have people coming up to me all the time. So you and I had an episode about and you will find rest, what God does in prayer. I got all kinds of phenomenal feedback on that interview and people are still contacting me about it. But when we were talking about that episode or that book, after we finished wrapping up the interview, you said that you had written a prequel for and you will find rest, which you said was necessary. And I'm curious, why? What was the impetus behind remain me and I in you? That's a good question. So both are kind of found in the subtitles that I've given to each one of them. And the first book that I wrote in Neuofine Rest, the subtitle is What God Doesn't Prayer. And it was just in my eagerness to share with others what God doesn't prayer and how St. Teresa of Adelaide and St. John of the Cross can really help us to appreciate what he's doing in prayer because it's being confused by many, many, many souls what he's actually doing in our life of prayer. But it was interesting the more more that I presented on that, and there's actually something to be written after that. So I haven't written the full book of that. There's one to come on it that finishes off the fifth and sixth dwelling and the second night. And so I always thought that would be, if any book I was going to write again, that would be it, that needs to be it. That's what people are waiting for. But the more that I would present on this material, the more my heart says we need to take a step back first. That before we talk about what a person can do, we need to talk about who that person is, that in order to appreciate the fullness of the possibilities of what God can do in your life of prayer, you first have to be in country in him as the person that he is. And that was really came back to the conversation that I used in the introduction of this book, Remain to Me and I and You, of a religious sister who was preparing to make her final vows. And I was presenting on the material and you will find Rasmagod doesn't prayer. And she was brilliant. You know, she was asking all the right intuitive questions. But in our own personal meeting, Srivil,, that she wasn't so sure she was going to make her final profession. And it had to do because she had, she was, you know, I'll give you a little bit more than you're probably looking for right away, but she was a convert to the faith, highly intellectual person, very successful in the world before she converted to the Catholic faith. And then after converting the Catholic faith, it even became a religious sister, working in a very hard mission, had been in that mission for 10 years, and was just now discerning whether she would make her final profession with them. But the summer prior to it, she had met her priest that she felt herself very drawn to and she was thankful that nothing physical had happened

But she said, you know father. I mean he wasn't even that great, which I thought was a great line

She says what happens when mr. Wonderful enters into the room and my first gut, sister, if Mr. Wonderful has an enter the room, we have a problem. And then it struck me, there was a humbling moment, because she was a very attractive person, both interior and exteriorly. And I think I better make it clear that I'm not talking about myself. You thought that priest wasn't so great, but Mr. Wonderful has now entered the room. That was years ago, so I was a better-looking young man. Now people are looking at that and saying, she went to Sputtle the Batfather. Don't worry about it at all. But that humbling moment was when the first time God put this question into my heart. And when I looked at her and said, Sister, is God a person to you or an idea? Because she was brilliant. And the idea of God is fascinating. And people can spend their whole lives studying about God and still not really know him, love him, or serve him. And she bowed her head in this long, uncomfortable silence. And when she finally raised her head, it was with very sad eyes that she remarked, it seems father that he's more of an idea than a person. And ever since then, it's been in my heart, in presentations presentations to engage people in who God is as a person. But even with the book, the annulifying rest, what God does in prayer, being out there, some who are really engaging them as a person already are really engaged by it. And they go through it and it's really helping them to to understand what he's doing in prayer but for those who may be struggling with even engaging him as a person it was hard to really read on to what he can do in prayer because they really are a sequence that first we have to be engaged by him as the person that he is to be open to the great possibilities of what you can do in prayer. You know when you and I were talking about sitting a date to record this episode, you suggested today as fitting because it's the Feast of Saint Teresa of Avala who is very special to both of us. But that choice of day got even more beautiful this morning because the gospel

reading it mass, at least at mine, I think there are some options, but it was remain in me as I remain in you from John 15. I couldn't help but start laughing because I turned to my daughter who's seeing next way. I'm like, this is literally the name of the book that I'm interviewing Father Sallar about today. All right. So, remain in me and I in you.

You break this up into three sections, basically,

knowing God, loving God and serving God. I'm curious. I mean, it kind of seemed to me at least as I was reading through this, I mean, I'm always thinking about spiritual theology, but you know, the the purgative, eluminative and unitive ways, kind of three stages I was relating to this in my mind. Is that kind of the same progression that you're relating here in different terms, or does it not go that far yet? Not quite that far yet. I would say that this is more basic to me. But the beauty of it though, Matthew, is that it can be that It's written in such a way

That I found so far that you can really hand this to anybody wherever they are in their spiritual life

You can hand it to the person that's struggling to know if God exists or not and you can hand it to the person who has been

Relating to the God very deeply for many many years and then it can apply to that purgative, elumative stages and transformative stages. But it really comes from the basic first questions found in the Baltimore Catechism. And it's the first question, who made you? God made you. Why did God make you? To share with you is everlasting happiness in heaven. And then the fourth question is how do we come to share in that everlasting happiness in heaven? And it basically comes down to knowing, loving, and serving God in this world. And so that's where it just came to my heart that we have to get back to the basics of knowing God as the person that he is, not some idea of who he is, loving him for who he truly is, and he is love and he is the Savior, not for some

creative thing I've come up with who God should be or who I would like him to be and then serving him and What was really beautiful in the writing that a vulca came down to something very simple because a lot of times we think of You know serving as stewardship and we how do we get people engaged in that? But it really came down to simplicity of serving God as simply knowing Him as the person that He is, loving Him as the person that He is, and then just wanting to be where He is. Because as Jesus Himself will say, where I am, my servant will be. So yeah, down of the three sections, Wurley came down to that fourth question found in the Baltimore Catechism. And so it was a really a basic place I thought for me to start from. Just as a new-of-find rest, what God does in prayer was based in these retreats I would give to religious sisters, this was in a parish mission that I needed to get three different talks for, for three different nights, and then that's where the inspiration came of, oh, well, one evening, I'm knowing him, one on loving him, and I'm serving him. Hey guys, we'll be back to the interview in just a moment. If you've ever wanted to draw closer to our lady and experience a tranquility and beauty of the holy sites where she has appeared, why not join me on a Marion Shrine's pilgrimage in March 2026? Now the anchor points of this pilgrimage are Fatima and Lords, sites of two of the most celebrated apparitions of Mary. We're going to explore the homes of the three St. Children, so Lucía, Jacinto and Francisco,

and participate in the famous Rosary processions of Fatima.

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