Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're

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Today I am speaking with Renee Duresta. Renee is the Director of Research at New Knowledge

and the Head of Policy at the Nonprofit Data for Democracy. And she investigates the spread of

hyperpartisan and destructive narratives across social networks. She's co-authored a recent report

on the Russian disinformation campaign, both before and since the 2016 presidential election.

And we talk about all that. She's advised politicians and policy makers, members of Congress,

the State Department. Her work has been featured in the New York Times and the Washington Post and

CNN and many other outlets. She's a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and a Truman

National Security Project Security Fellow. She also holds degrees in computer science and political

science from SUNY Stony Brook. As you'll hear, Renee was recommended to me by my friend and

former podcast guest, Tristan Harris, who recommended her as an authority on

just what happened with the Russian Influence campaign in recent years. And Renee did not disappoint.

So without further ado, I bring you Renee Duresta.

I am here with Renee Duresta. Renee, thanks for coming on the podcast.

Thanks for having me, Sam. I was introduced to you through our mutual friend Tristan Harris. How do

you know Tristan? Tristan and I met in mid-2017. I had written an essay about bots and he read it

...