We don't cry all the time when you recall it.

You know, and your heart is just so desperate for Jesus to be glorified.

You know, that's my heart is like heal your broken church, Lord.

But whenever there's self-protection or protection of system,

and that comes primary to our desire to glorify Jesus and obey Him,

then you have this potential for massive brokenness.

Hey everyone, welcome to the Elisa Childers podcast.

We have a special episode today because not only is our guest really knowledgeable on issues

related to spiritual abuse from a both a personal and from an intellectual and study standpoint,

but she's also one of my really good friends and she's been on the podcast before.

So Tise canon, welcome. So glad that you're here to join us today in studio.

It's always fun when we can have a guest in studio.

So and it's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful studio.

Coming along. Yeah. So we were talking recently because one thing that the viewers and listeners

may not know is that we hang out a lot. We go to this park and we walk and we have processed a lot

together on the issue of spiritual abuse because it's something we walked through together.

And we were talking like, wouldn't it be so cool if we could just give people a bird's eye view,

just let them be a little fly on the wall to our conversations about this topic and how we've

really over the last several years processed this experience together because I think it would be

really helpful to the body of Christ. And so I wanted to start out because I know there can be

all kinds of people can be defensive even knowing we're going to be talking about this,

but I want to explain our heart behind it. So like, why are we doing this today? What are we hoping

...