Welcome to the future podcast, a show that explores the interesting overlap between design, marketing, and business.

I'm Greg Gunn.

Do you know the difference between a freelancer and a small business owner? I thought I did until I

listen to this conversation. Now I won't spoil it for you but there is an important

distinction. In today's deep dive episode, we talk with former software developer and author

Jonathan Stark. If you're a long time listener of the show, then you'll probably recognize that name.

Jonathan's mission is to rid the world of hourly billing and in this

Q&A session he explains how you can do that. Transcend the hired gun competing on price alone and become someone who's paid for the

quality of their ideas. Jonathan also feels other questions like how to find new

leads, figuring out who you should market to, and the pros and cons of specializing.

Now if you're raking it in and loving life, then give this one a casual listen,

but the rest of us should listen carefully and use these

free nuggets of knowledge to help our own creative business pursuits.

Also, do me a favor and tell your friends to subscribe to this podcast.

We need your support and word of mouth to keep this thing going.

So the next time you see your friend, steal their phone, find this show, and subscribe for them.

They'll thank you later for it.

Please enjoy our conversation with Jonathan Stark. Jonathan, welcome back. Welcome back. I'm going to ask you this question just to start

off with how do you define freelancer and is there is that different than being an

independent business owner? Absolutely, yeah.

Even if it's just a mental difference, I think there's a big difference.

And it comes like, I mean, it's right in the word.

...