Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're

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Today I'm presenting the audio from the event in Dallas I did with Christian Pichilini.

Christian's written a wonderful book, White American Youth, which recounts his experience as a

neo-nazi and a leader of the Hammer Skin Nation. In this podcast we talk about how he got out of

the movement, and we talk about the cult-like dynamics of white supremacy, and just the state of

things on the extreme right in the US and Europe at the moment. Many related issues, a very long Q&A

with the audience. I thought it was a great event, so without further delay I give you Christian Pichilini.

Thank you very much. I've never been to Dallas before, so it is a miss notter.

I can only say that once, so you won't hear me use that line again.

Really it's an honor to be here, and I'm so happy all of you came out. I really think this

is going to be a good one. I've been looking forward to this conversation for quite some time.

My guest tonight became a white supremacist at the age of 14. He agrees with you.

He became a leader in the Hammer Skin Nation, which is one of the most violent hate groups in the

world. After leading that he became a founded a group called Life After Hate, which was a non-profit

dedicated to countering racism. He's given a TEDx talk. He's won an Emmy for his role as a director

and executive producer of an anti-hate video campaign. He's the author of a really wonderful book,

...