Hello and welcome to Kathy Gance's Live. I'm Si Keltger host. So happy to be with you, as always, but kind of it's a little extra happy this week because we've got all kinds of fun and interesting people coming into the building and we're getting ready to go to the Kathy Gance's calm.

Conference tomorrow will do the show live open forum from the conference tomorrow afternoon. So I hope you will join us for that. But we had the Australian contingent yesterday you got to hear some of them on the air but speakers are coming in some of our apologists who live farther far away farther than a drive away are coming in and other staff members and it's just a wonderful opportunity and our guest this hour is here for the conference and we've been getting to know him here at

Kathy Gance was he does wonderful work and today we can talk a little bit about the church fathers. So if you have questions about the church fathers, whether you your question comes from a Catholic perspective, a Protestant perspective, orthodox, whatever that perspective is, you're welcome to call with your questions about the church fathers because our guest, Joshua Charles, was brought into the church by those church fathers. He's a Catholic convert, New York Times best selling author, former White House speech writer, historian, scholar, speaker,

classical pianist, man, we have a lot in common. He came into the church in 2019. You can find his conversion story in the book mind, heart and soul, intellectuals and the path to Rome. Joshua Charles, thank you for being here with us. Thank you. We were on before and a few weeks ago and for for focus. And you guys don't bring me into the church. And so to be to be where the magic happens is quite an honor. Well, thank you for calling it magic. People use other words for what goes on here. But thank you for calling it magic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You're doing a blog too. I should tell people. So maybe just mention how you that you're, you're publishing pieces on your own conversion and on this, this Catholic faith that you've come into. Yeah. I call it the becoming Catholic. You know, very creative. You know, becoming Catholic blog on my website, JoshuaTCharles.com. And I'm basically just trying to slowly, methodically piece by piece, put out, you know, basically every bit of evidence I found and continue to

read the fathers virtually every day. And I just want to put it out there for people for free as I mean, like you guys do, you guys put out so much for free. So, so any people of good will who want to find the truth, they can find it.

Right. I, I, one of the pieces I read on, on purgatory, you used a piece of scripture that is not always used by a collegeist on purgatory. So I was very impressed with that. That you're, you're using scripture, you're using church fathers, using history,

logic theology to, to share, to share the faith. And I do think that a convert has an advantage sometimes because you come at it with an eye that goes, oh, wait, that could refer to purgatory, for example. Yeah.

Well, with all, with all fairness, that was actually from Brent Petrie. Brent Petrie did an amazing video on purgatory. And he referenced a parable from our Lord, I think in Luke 11 or 12, where our Lord lays out there's actually, well, he gives, he gives four, but there's really three,

the eschatological outcomes reach soul, whether eternal life, eternal damnation, but then he also talks about severe punishment or light punishment. So what I'm making is one, right, you know, that so purgatory. So I got that from Brent Petrie, who's amazing, you know, so.

Well, yeah, I mean, there's no, but probably very few completely original ideas and scripture scholarship 2000 years of the completed scriptures, but one of the beings of being Catholic.

Well, we talked about in our focus episode, we did talk about the church fathers, and by the way, you are welcome to call if you have early church questions, if you have church father questions, eight, eight, three, one, eight, seven, eight, four, whatever your perspective, if you have a question about the early church and about what the church fathers have to say, eight, eight, three, one, eight, seven, eight, four.

But this time, we want to kind of have a specific question for you, which is when the church fathers talk about the Catholic faith and the Catholic church, we'll often hear folks who are not in communion with the Catholic church today say, well, that's small see Catholic is what they mean. They don't mean the Catholic church.

And in your reading of the church fathers, is that true?

No, and just so people have some context, I came from a lifetime of Protestantism didn't feel any particular denominational loyalty, just where ever seen the most biblical, wherever they were, not compromising on things like marriage and abortion, as long as they had a good community, my family and I were okay with it.

I always love the Bible, took the Bible very seriously. And so in 2017 is when I began reading the church fathers, not looking for the Catholic faith, I was working at the Museum of the Bible, a great, a great place.

And I had finished my main project there and everybody was focused on getting the building open and DC, if people haven't been there, it's great.

And so my boss literally told me, Josh, research whatever you want for the next five, six months or whatever, we'll make it into exhibits after we're open.

And so I had a firm invitation.

Oh, it was a full time benefits salary and research whatever you want.

Yeah, so I literally spent, you know, 10 to 12 hours a day reading the church fathers and then I watched a lot of the journey home interviews, I watched a lot of you guys, I watched all the James White debates about with Catholics and whatnot.

So anyway, that's how I went into the fathers, but I, I opened with, you know, the very first volume, which was Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, and whatnot, and Ignatius of Antioch is my Confirmations Saint, here he is.

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