Okay, today we're going to try something new. I'm going to be doing what I'm calling

quick chat episodes. And the point is I want to release a lot more episodes of the Indy

hackers podcast, but that's hard to do if I'm spending hours preparing for every episode

and if the episodes last one or two hours long. So with these new quick chat episodes,

what I'm going to do is basically keep them really short and invite different indie hackers who are working on cool stuff, regardless of what level they're at, just to talk about what they're up to you.

So my first guest is Pat Wals. Pat, how's it going?

Good. How are you?

Doing excellent. You posted a milestone to Andy Hackers last week, I believe, and it was called 10 paying customers.

And you got your first 10 paying customers for a new app you're working on called Pigeon.

Why don't you tell us about that?

Yeah, so Pigeon is a Chrome extension that is built on top of Gmail. That was, I run my kind of main gig is a website called starterstory.com,

which is really similar to indie hackers where it just interviews entrepreneurs.

And a lot of the work was like tons and tons of emails.

And I'm a software engineer and, you know, dealing with like tons of emails gets, it's not really

my favorite thing to do. So I wanted a way to automate more stuff inside Gmail, such as

automating follow-ups, setting deadlines, and just tons of stuff to make my email work faster

and spend less time on it. So I started that.

I had the idea to build it late last year, and I kept kind of thinking about how I wanted

to build it, but I didn't actually write any code or anything for three or four months.

And then about two or three months ago, I finally started writing code and talking to people.

And then I released it about a month

and a half ago and then got to about 10 paying customers, which is why I posted that Indie Hacker's

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