10 Years Of A Gay and A NonGay: Let's Talk About Alice with Caroline Litman

A Gay and A NonGay

W!ZARD Studios

Mental Health, Sexuality, Comedy, Health & Fitness

4.3 • 632 Ratings

🗓️ 10 December 2025

⏱️ 36 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Trigger Warning: This episode contains multiple mentions of suicide and suicidal thoughts as well as themes that some listeners may find triggering. This is a re-release celebrating a decade of love and allyship on A Gay And A NonGay. This week we're throwing it back to March 2025... In many ways, Caroline Litman was the type of supportive Mum that any trans child could dream to have. She was supportive of her daughter, Alice, who was on the waiting list for gender affirming care. Alice was on the waiting list for a gender identity clinic appointment for 1,023 days when she took her own life. Ever since then, Caroline has fought for trans rights, in an attempt to ensure that the pain her daughter went through never needs to be experienced by anybody else, ever again. On this episode of A Gay And A NonGay, James and Dan are joined by Caroline to talk about the state of trans rights in the UK, her embarrassment about what she used to believe, whether we should be respectful to transphobic people online and why the gender critical movement is so well organised. Follow A Gay & A NonGay TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gaynongay⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gaynongay⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gaynongay⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gaynongay⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠gaynongay.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email Us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠us@gaynongay.com⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:25.9	requires compatible device and internet
0:28.1	Come in, shoes off
0:32.2	What's the Wi-Fi?
0:33.5	Most stream the new series I'm binging
0:34.9	Please can we listen to something that isn't Christmas music Can Can you, um... Search out of Tiefoster turkey, quickly. Everyone, we're going to video call Auntie Audrey now. Mom, Joe's talking to telly again. Can we share a video with a dog in his outfit? Hosting this Christmas, you need the UK's best broadband technology. EEE does more.
0:56.2	Full Fiber is the UK's most reliable broadband technology.
0:59.3	Ombom's broadband terminology research March 223, verify at e.e.com. This re-release is part of a retrospective celebrating 10 years of a gay and a non-gay
1:04.7	and the big conversations that helped change our world.
1:12.8	Hello and welcome to a gay and a non-gay. I'm James Barr. I'm gay and he's
1:17.0	Dan Hudson. He's non-gay. And today we're joined on the podcast by Caroline Lippman. You might be
1:22.3	familiar with her because her daughter Alice died age 20 in May 2022 and she was facing a five year wait for a gender
1:30.6	identity assessment when she died. We're going to talk to Caroline about how things feel for the
1:35.0	trans community right now, how Caroline is embarrassed about what she used to believe and whether
1:40.0	we should be respectful to transphobic people online and also why the gender critical movement is so well organized.
1:46.7	This episode contains multiple references to suicide and suicidal thoughts.
	...

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