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Welcome to Jen Rubin's Green Room. This is Jen Rubin. It's not very often that historians become popular media figures, but in the age in which we live, historians

have become vital to understanding what we're going through, why we're going through it,

where these forces of intolerance, nationalism, xenophobia, fascism came from. And when you look at the array of people who have

really studied the issue of fascism, there's no one better than my guest today, Ruth Ben-Giatt.

She has specialized in Italian fascism. And if you will, her ship has come in,

because we are now experiencing a authoritarian movement that bears an uncanny resemblance

to many of the qualities in the sort of regime that she has studied. And I think it's important to both understand how uniquely American our situation is,

insofar as we have never come to terms with race,

but also how consistent it is with the way right-wing movements have operated historically and around the world.

So without further ado, I welcome Ruth to the show.

Welcome to the show, Ruth.

Thank you. I'm delighted to be here.

As I said in my introduction, it seems like historianship has come in these days

because everyone is striving to figure out the moment we're in the forces that we see.

And no one is better at studying fascism than someone who made her entire career, frankly, up until now, I think.

Studying fascism, studying a special variety, which is Italian fascism.

...