This is a

This is CBS Eye on the World.

Here's John Bachelor.

I welcome my colleague Mary Kessel Executive Vice President Stevens Incorporated

also a fellow at the Hudson Institute former senior advisor to the

Secretary of State and I call upon Mary's State

Department Hat to help me with a analysis from Carnegie Europe from Stephen Lenny, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Europe,

dividing diplomacy into two camps,

simultaneous camps, but nonetheless, there is the liberal order camp, which is something

the US practices and has since the Second War and the success of the US.S. to grow, to be prosperous foreign aid, the world of the State

Department and good relations with the Allies and adversary relations with the enemy, who are often in the second in the

20th century regarded as communist here we are in the 21st century and Mr Lenny is

recommending that we've moved to something called

the rules-based order which does not casticate someone because it doesn't practice democracy.

So much of the rhetoric these days is for democracy. There is none to be found in Russia, in North Korea, in Iran, and in China.

And yet they are part of the apparatus of the order in Eurasia.

There are adversarial relationships these days between the United States and Russia, the United States and China.

Is there a transformation underway?

Does it help to be rules-based?

Is that an appeasement? Is that a retreat? Mary, a very good evening to you. Thank you for this.

I came across this for the first time and it makes a deal of sense to me not to declare several capitals to be the enemy of democracy,

knowing that the global South and much of Africa and South America do not share that opinion and are backing away from the US accordingly. How do you see it Mary?

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