meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

030: Live Session (Mark) — Empathy Phase (Part 2)

Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

David Burns, MD

Clinical, Therapy, Anxiety, Psychotherapy, Depression, Health & Fitness, Cognitive, Mentalhealth, Mental Health, Behavior, Education, Self-improvement, Psychology, Relationships, Addiction, Happiness, Personalgrowth

4.4856 Ratings

🗓️ 3 April 2017

⏱️ 47 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

After reviewing Mark’s scores on the Brief Mood Survey, the Empathy phase of the session unfolds. During this phase of the session, David and Jill will not try to help, rescue, or save Mark. They will simply try to see the world through his eyes and provide some warmth and compassion.

Mark explains that he had two goals in life when he was a young man. He hoped to have a large, loving family; and wanted to become a skillful and compassionate physician. Although he has achieved the second goal, he has felt sad and guilty for decades because of his failure to develop a loving relationship with his oldest son from a previous marriage.

While Mark tells his story, David and Jill encourage him to record his negative thoughts and feelings on a form called the Daily Mood Log, and to rate how strong each feeling is, on a scale from 0% (not at all) to 100% (the most extreme).

Click here and you will see Mark's Daily Mood Log.

As you can see, Mark has many different kinds of negative feelings ranging in severity from 30% (moderate) to 80% (severe).

If you've been listening to the Feeling Good Podcasts, you know that negative feelings do not result from what’s actually happening in our lives, but rather from our negative thoughts about what's happening. David and Jill encourage Mark to record his negative thoughts on the Daily Mood Log as well, and to indicate how strongly he believes each one on a scale from 0% (not at all) to 100% (completely).

You can also see that Mark is telling himself that he's been a failure as a father, that his brain is defective, and that he is not doing a good job for David and Jill. These thoughts all involve self-blame. You'll notice that he also has two other-blaming thoughts. This is not unusual. When you’re not getting along with someone, you may spend part of your time telling yourself that the problem is all your fault, and part of your time telling yourself that it’s someone else’s fault. As a result, your negative feelings may shift back and forth from guilt and shame to anger and resentment.

Most therapists would not interrupt and ask their patients to record their negative thoughts and feelings while they are venting. However, this information will prove to be incredibly valuable later in the session.

Jill and David ask Mark how they’re doing on empathy. If Mark gives them a high rating, they will go on to the next phase of the session, called Paradoxical Agenda Setting. That’s where they will find out what, if anything, Mark wants help with, and see if he has any conscious, or subconscious, resistance to change.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hello and welcome to the Feeling Good podcast.

0:12.4

I am your host, Fabrice Knight.

0:14.7

And joining me here in the Murrieta Studios is Dr. David Burns.

0:19.0

Hi, David.

0:20.0

Hi, Fabrice.

0:23.8

Dr. David Burns has been a pioneer in the development of cognitive therapy, and he is the creator of the new team therapy. He is the author of

0:30.2

Feeling Good, which has sold over 5 million copies in the United States, and has been translated into

0:35.5

over 20 languages. He is an emeritus adjunct clinical professor of psychiatry at the Stanford University School

0:43.0

of Medicine.

0:44.6

This is episode 30 of the Feeling Good podcast and this is our second installment in the series

0:51.7

of doing a live session with a client, our client Mark,

0:58.0

last time you heard the testing part. And now we're moving into the empathy phase.

1:09.3

There was a little bit of a transition to go from the testing to the empathy, but I think

1:13.9

one really blends into the other. And we may want our listener to pay attention to certain

1:22.4

things that you actually did, you and Jill did during the empathy phase. You want to say

1:26.8

something about what they should pay attention to? Yeah did during the empathy phase, you want to say something about what they should

1:28.6

pay attention to? Yeah. During the empathy phase, there are certain things we are doing and certain

1:34.2

things that were explicitly not doing. Yeah. And the things that we are doing, I think of

1:40.4

empathy is having three components. Yes.

1:45.1

Thought empathy is, if the patient would say, if it's my patient, say, yeah, David really

1:52.7

understood how I was thinking, and he got it absolutely right.

1:56.6

That would be perfect thought empathy.

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from David Burns, MD, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of David Burns, MD and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2025.