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Hello and welcome to the B-side for episode 13 of our national conversation about

conversations about race, the wither whiteness episode.

I'm Barretune Day Thurston here in Panoply's New York studios with my regular co-discussant

Tanner Colby.

And due to a scheduling conflict, the lovely Raquel Sepeda can't be with us this morning,

so we're joined by our very special and first recurring guest, Anand Giridharas, author of

the true American murder and mercy in Texas.

On our last episode, we discussed white nationalism and its embrace of the Donald Trump campaign

and the strange story of a white poet, Michael Derek Hudson, who used an Asian pen name to

get published in the annual

Best American Poetry Anthology. And now with some of what you had to say, producer A.C.

Valdez. Hey, Baratunde. How you doing? Doing well. Good to be back. Welcome back. Thank you.

Thank you. It's good to have you. Feels weird. Yeah, like a good way, like a good weird.

Well, that's good.

It's good.

It's like a new pair of underpants, right?

I guess, yeah, let's go straight to underpants, I see.

Yeah, let's go straight to underpants.

...