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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Zephyr Teachout on suing Trump, fighting corruption, and breaking monopolies

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, Society & Culture, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 13 June 2017

⏱️ 91 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Zephyr Teachout is a law professor at Fordham University, the author of Corruption in America, one of the lead lawyers in the emoluments case that’s been brought against Donald Trump, and a former gubernatorial and congressional candidate. Which is all to say that Teachout is someone who knows a lot about political corruption, and so we dive deep into that topic in this podcast.We talk about how political corruption was defined by the Founding Fathers, and why, during the Constitutional Convention, they discussed the threat posed by corruption more than they discussed the threat posed by foreign invasion. And we talk about the way today’s Supreme Court — in the Citizens United and related decisions — has narrowed the definition to be almost meaningless. Teachout is also one of the lead lawyers in the case being brought against Trump on his foreign profits and gifts — “emoluments” that, arguably, are unconstitutional. We go through that lawsuit — and its prospects and potential remedies — in some detail.We also dig into the role monopolies and related concentrations of industry power are playing in American life — this is an increasingly influential argument on today’s left, and Teachout does a nice job here explaining why.Finally, we talk a lot about an issue that I think today’s politicians wildly underestimate in importance: not corruption itself, but the appearance of corruption, and the way it’s rotting the public’s faith in the political system. How do you solve that? What are the possible unintended consequences of the solutions that get proposed?As they say, all that and more!Books:Middlemarch by George Eliot The Gilded Age by Mark TwainAll the King’s Men by Robert Penn Warren Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Lisa Ling, a journalist and host.

0:07.2

And I'm Hoon Lee, but you may know me as Chao on the Max original series Wario, based

0:11.7

on the writings of Bruce Lee.

0:13.4

After every new episode, join us here Hoon and I, and a series of special guests are

0:18.6

going to discuss how the show is made.

0:21.0

So, stream Wario Season 3, starting June 29th only on Max, and join us here or wherever

0:26.6

you listen to podcast.

0:30.0

Hello and welcome to the Ezra Clanchon, the box media podcast network.

0:45.9

My guest's week is great.

0:46.9

It is effort to teach out.

0:47.9

I've known Zeffer for a long time.

0:50.2

We were on the Dean campaign together, though I was a lowly and not very reliable summer

0:54.9

intern.

0:55.9

And she was an important innovator in digital organizing, which we talk about.

1:00.3

She is now a professor at Fordham Law.

1:02.4

She's run for governor of New York, for a house district in New York.

1:05.4

She's a real leader in anti-corruption politics and anti-corruption thinking she wrote

1:09.4

a great book called Corruption in America, which traces the definition of political corruption

1:14.0

from the pretty expansive concern the founders had around it.

1:16.8

To the way today's Supreme Court has narrowed what corruption means, told almost doesn't

1:20.6

mean anything at all.

1:21.6

We talk a lot about that and about how to deal with the fact that most people believe

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