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You're listening to Radio Atlantic. I'm Claudine Abade, executive producer of Atlantic Audio.

The Atlantic is taking this moment to focus on Ukraine.

And for this episode of the show, we're looking back at the early days of the war

and the unlikely figure leading Ukraine's defense.

Only a few years ago, Volodymyr Zelensky was a comedian.

Today, he's the symbol of his country's resistance and a stark contrast to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

In April of this year, a time that was still precarious in Kiev,

staff writer Ann Applebaum, an editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg churnied Zelensky's compound

to meet the man of the moment.

We're all very eager to hear you on a range of subjects that are familiar

and maybe also some things that we just want to talk about that are interesting

and intellectually interesting.

I don't have so high level of intellect to speak about.

You could think of a leadership style more different from that of Vladimir Putin than Zelensky's.

It's almost too neat. If you're writing a screenplay, you'd be like,

oh, these guys, they're too opposite. Give me a break.

I've been writing and working on Ukraine for many, many years

and I always felt that it was a very minority interest

...