I'm back in plenary session. This is the virtual edition. I'm joined by my friend and colleague, Zeb Yemrojik.

Dr. Yamrojik is a practicing physician. He is an expert in infectious disease ethics, and he is joining us from Melbourne, Australia.

Zeb, it's great to see you again. I think this is the seventh time we've spoken.

Yeah, it's great to chat again again. I think this is the seventh time we've spoken. Yeah, it's great to chat again.

So you're in Melbourne.

Yeah, that's right.

We're coming into winter here, and the sort of pandemic madness is nearly over outside of hospitals, at least.

Well, it's not over here, so that's what I wanted to pick up with you on.

Number one, although many U.S.

hospitals are dropping the mask mandates, some hospitals continue, including some of the

hospitals that I have to work in, which means that all the visitors, all the doctors have to

wear the mask. And when you walk the streets of San Francisco, one in 20 people are wearing a mask

outside. To this day, outside.

So what are your thoughts on this?

Let's maybe let's talk with the healthcare workers first.

Healthcare worker masking, do we have good data?

Look, I don't think we have good randomized control data.

Unfortunately, you know, a lot of what we have is from influenza and

the SARS outbreak. And it's often kind of observational data where they bring in a set of policy

changes that includes masks and infection rates among staff go down. And it's inferred that masks

are quite good at protecting

staff. As we've talked about previously on this show, you know, I think one question,

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