Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots, the Spectator's Daily Politics Podcast. I'm Oscar Binson. I'm joined today by Tim Schittman and James Heel. And big news, Nadine Zaharwee has defected to reform. He's, of course, a former Chancellor, Party Chairman, Education Secretary and and vaccine minister under the Tories,

but he's now joined Reforms Pirateship. Question, I suppose, for both of you, Tim and James, how many Tories is this too many Tories? Well, if there is an answer, Oscar, we haven't reached it yet. The reason why Adim Zahawi's been welcomed is because he's considered the right type of Tory, if you will, someone whose

pros outweighs cons.

And I think, if I take you through three of the type of Tory, if you will, someone whose pros outweighs cons. And I think,

if I take you through three of the kind of reasons why, I think, number one, Adim Sahawi obviously

has a degree of credibility that has been lacking from some of the people who might have joined

reform, former chancellor, brief live chancellor, of course, but had that, but of course was the

vaccine to minister, had been an education secretary, someone who, Chancellor, of course, but had that, but of course was the vaccines minister,

had been an education secretary, someone who, briefly in 2022 looked like potentially a big

frontrunner to be Boris Johnson's successor as potentially the Conservative Party.

Second of all, he has access to a lot of deep pockets. One of reasons he went across because

Nick Candy in December 2024, which now reforms treasurer, went across. And so he said he'd help where he can on that front. And then third of all, I think, I suppose it's this sort of character of Ndineem Shahi, the style of his politics and his backstory. You know, this is someone who gave one of the best speeches of the 2022 Tory leadership race on the British Dream, talked about how he fled with his family from Iraq in the 1970s,

fled him a son of Astin, and became a multimillionaire through Yucav. And I think there is definitely

a argument which they're sort of getting out reform, which is sort of people who are first or second

generation immigrants, such Lela Cunningham or Zer Yusif, who really feel that that kind of

Britain that they or their family stood for or wanted to come and be a part of, is being betrayed somehow or let down, and they're very much keen to play a part of that. So I think for those reasons, Nadeem Zaharwe, who of course, at just 58, he's younger than three of Reform's current five MPs, could have another career in him. But I think that's why they're making a big

song and dance about him today.

A Wunderkit, maybe, for a reform. Relatives he is, yeah.

Tim, do you think they're sort of beginning to look a bit like the Tories 2.0? And is that going to be the attack line that people use against them? I mean, some people will. I don't think that's entirely fair because I think Farage is such a big personality at the top

and the kind of people they're attracting are sort of different from the kind of people

the toys are attracted. fair because I think Farage is such a big personality at the top and the kind of people

they're attracting are sort of different from the kind of people the Tories are attracting,

...