We are joined today by one of my favorite new finds, journalist and writer Sam Adler Bell,

who is also the co-host of Know Your Enemy, which is about the right. And the whole thing

fascinates me. So your latest piece in New York Magazine is fascinating. I devoured it immediately.

And it's called the women leaving the right. And I was particularly enthralled by the art that came

with the piece because it shows Pete Hexeth, Andrew Tate, Nick Fuentes, Elon Musk, and Tucker Carlson.

So that's just an interesting cast of characters.

And so the two things that really stuck out to me are women leaving the conservative movement.

And then the influence of Nick Fuentes and all of these right wing influencers.

So start by, if you will, describing your piece

and the women that are featured. Sure. Well, there's main, there's two main subjects of the

piece, a woman who I call Anna because she does not want to go by her actual name and a woman

who went under her own name, Alex Kashishuda. Both of them were really prominent

pundits on the MAGA New Right. A lot of the work that they did was about really criticizing

women, talking about how women are unwell, and that feminism has diverted their natural motherly instincts

into a quest for worldly success. And that now that

women have it, they're using their newfound authority to punish and fetter men imperiling civilization

in the process. This all sounds kind of crazy and awful. But this is the kind of thing that has

become totally normalized on the right. And these women, you know, in different ways and to different degrees, were involved in kind of being mouthpieces for that message over the past 10 years.

But they, over the course of more recent time, started to realize that they were really, you know, selling the rope to hang themselves

with. And the movement that they were a part of, really the MAGA movement has become,

if you can believe it, even though it started from a very sexist place with a figure like

Donald Trump at the top of it, has become even more openly sexist. And a lot of the sort of

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