'You Didn't Hear This From Me' is Kelsey McKinney's gossip bible

NPR's Book of the Day

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Books, Arts

4.2 • 671 Ratings

🗓️ 4 March 2025

⏱️ 9 minutes

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Summary

Kelsey McKinney has built her career on gossip. The co-creator and former host of the popular podcast Normal Gossip has been interested in the topic since her upbringing in the Evangelical church, where she was taught that talking about others is a sin. Now, she's out with a new book, You Didn't Hear This From Me, which argues that gossip is a natural, morally-neutral social tool. In today's episode, McKinney joins NPR's Juana Summers for a conversation that touches on the author's religious upbringing, the relationship between gossip and misinformation, and reality TV as an opportunity for social learning.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey, it's Empire's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. Kelsey McKinney's on the pod today. She is the former host of the podcast Normal Gossip, a podcast about gossip, and now she's out with a new book about, you guessed it, gossip. It's titled, You Didn't Hear This From Me, Mostly True Notes on G gossip. And it's a combination of essay, memoir,
0:22.4	and criticism about the power of gossip. In this interview with NPR's Wanda Summers,
0:27.9	McKinney makes the point that gossip doesn't have inherent moral value. It's not good, it's not
0:34.0	bad. It is a tool like any other. But it's how we use that tool that dictates who gossip helps and who it hurts.
0:41.9	That conversation is up ahead.
0:44.1	In the U.S., national security news can feel far away from daily life.
0:48.8	Distant wars, murky conflicts, diplomacy behind closed doors on our new show, Sources and Methods.
0:55.4	NPR reporters on the ground bring you stories of real people, helping you understand why distant
1:00.4	events matter here at home. Listen to sources and methods on the NPR app or wherever you get
1:06.2	your podcasts.
1:08.3	What is it that makes gossip so irresistible?
1:12.4	Examples of its pull and power.
1:14.9	They exist all over pop culture.
1:20.6	Did you write this?
1:22.5	No, I swear.
1:23.9	Then you told somebody.
1:25.6	She told.
1:27.0	What?
1:31.8	I know. I know. I know. Are stayed all night, yeah? Are you running out? Are you spreading rumors?
1:37.1	We were literally just talking about that. How could you know? Everybody knows.
1:42.8	And if you ask Kelsey McKinney, we might just be born with the desire to gossip for good reason.
1:46.1	She offers this take from a British anthropologist.
	...

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