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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Yascha Mounk: Is Trump’s incompetence saving us from his illiberalism?

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, Society & Culture, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 23 May 2017

⏱️ 94 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Yascha Mounk is a Lecturer on Government at Harvard University, a Fellow in the Political Reform Program at New America, and host of the podcast, The Good Fight. He’s also the author of some of the scariest political science research I’ve seen in a long time.What Mounk found is that the consensus we thought existed on behalf of democracy and democratic norms is weakening. The percentage of Americans who think it’s important to live in a democracy has been plummeting in recent decades. The percentage of Americans who say they would support a military coup is worrying high. This is the context in which Donald Trump — a politician with clearly illiberal instincts — won the presidency. And this may help explain why he won the presidency: the political consensus elites thought he violated may not actually be a consensus anymore. The good news, which Mounk and I talk about in this podcast, is that Trump may have authoritarian instincts, but he doesn’t appear to have plans, and he definitely doesn’t appear to have the discipline to stick to his plans. We also discuss Trump’s bizarre first few months in office, as well as the challenges democracies face across the western world, and whether diverse societies make pluralist liberal democracies harder to sustain. Mounk is scary smart, he’s got an international perspective most commentators on American politics lack, and his story about becoming an American citizen after growing up Jewish in Germany is worth the price of admission on its own (that would be true even if this podcast wasn’t free). Enjoy!Books:“The Subjection of Women," by John Stuart Mill"A House for Mr. Biswas," by V. S. Naipaul“The Leopard," by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Lisa Ling, a journalist and host.

0:07.2

And I'm Hoon Lee, but you may know me as Chao on the Max original series War Year, based

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on the writings of Bruce Lee.

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After every new episode, join us here Hoon and I, and a series of special guests are

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going to discuss how the show is made.

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So, stream War Year season 3, starting June 29 only on Max.

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And join us here, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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To sign up for your trial, today.

1:00.0

Hello and welcome to the Ezra Klein Show, a podcast on the Box Media podcast network.

1:15.0

I am coming to you in an extraordinary time.

1:17.8

This feels like an extraordinary time.

1:20.7

This is a week when it's become clear that President Donald Trump fired James Comey,

1:25.5

not just over the Russian investigation, but also before he fired him.

1:28.4

It has to call off an investigation into his National Security Advisor, Michael Flynn.

1:33.4

This is a week when Republicans have begun at least two House Republicans have at least

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