Xi and Putin – What do they really want from each other?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Podmasters

News, Society & Culture, Politics

4.9 • 1.6K Ratings

🗓️ 4 June 2026

⏱️ 22 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Beyond the pomp and pageantry of Vladimir Putin’s Beijing summit with Xi Jinping, what do Russia and China need from each other? And how strong is their relationship? Plus, coming hot on the heels of Donald Trump’s own Beijing visit, what does it mean for the geopolitical balance in an era of great power competition? Gavin Esler joins Joseph Webster, senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and editor of the independent China-Russia Report to discuss. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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1:05.8	One of the advantages leaders of authoritarian states enjoy is that journalists are usually not able to ask annoying questions, especially if they go to the heart of international relations,
1:12.1	war and peace. Right now, to the heart of international relations, war and peace.
1:17.7	Right now, after the visit of Vladimir Putin to see Xi Jinping in Beijing, immediately after Donald Trump's own visit to China ended, those annoying questions have not been asked of the key
1:23.5	participants. For example, how does Xi really feel about Russia's four years of failure to
1:29.5	defeat Ukraine? What does Putin really think about the way in which China's economic miracle
1:34.5	makes the Russian economy look like a failure? What do both leaders really think about Donald Trump?
1:40.9	Well, one of the advantages of living in a democracy is that we can right now ask some of
1:45.6	those questions and hear answers that go to the heart of international relations and superpower
1:50.2	politics. I'm Gavin Esther, and this is not a dream. For his insights into what really went on, as far as we can establish it at least, behind the smiles and the showmanship of the Putin-Ghi summit, I'm joined from Washington, D.C. by Joseph Webster, senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, an editor of the China-Russia report newsletter on Substack. Joe, welcome to This is Not a Drill. Gavin, thanks for having
2:36.2	wonderful to be on and express some annoying personal opinions. Well, it's going to be an insight,
2:42.4	I have to say, compared to some of the stuff that came out from Beijing. Do you have any sense,
2:47.7	at least, of what Putin, what Russia wants and needs from China right now?
	...

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