Welcome to the Creative Pen podcast. I'm Joanna Penn, thriller author and creative entrepreneur,

bringing you interviews, inspiration and information on writing, publishing options and marketing ideas for your book.

You can find the episode show notes, your free author blueprint and lots more information at

TheCreativepen.com. And that's Penn with a double N. And here's the show.

Hello creatives. I'm Joanna Penn. And this is episode number 641 of the podcast. And it is Sunday the 14th of August 22 as I record this.

In today's show, I'm talking to Becca Puglisi about writing conflict. Why we need conflict,

different types and levels of conflict, mistakes in writing conflict, plus we also talk about how she and her co-writer,

Angela Ackerman, work together, how they research and how they knew nothing about business when

they started out, but have learned along the way and now have two businesses, lots of

intellectual property licensing and plans for the future. The second volume of the Conflict Thesaurus is out on 6th of September 2022.

I have volume one here in my study and I'll be getting that next one as well.

Conflict really is the lifeblood of story.

So that's coming up in the interview section.

So in publishing and book marketing news, well, the Department of Justice versus Penguin

Random House hearing goes on.

And there are so many interesting tidbits coming out of the trial.

Twitter user John H. Mayer has been live tweeting the case and lots of different

publications have picked this up because it's like airing a lot of dirty laundry in

public under oath.

And yeah, there is so many interesting things.

A couple of things I picked out this week.

The CEO of Penguin Random House,

...