All right, William, first I want to thank you for joining us in the garage.

I've been a fan of your work as far as 9-11, as far as 9-11, as far as Alastair Crow Crowley and as far as West Memphis 3

which is a huge popular case and a case

that is near and dear to mine

and Nick's heart

and then all of a sudden

I see you do this

smiley face killer and I'm

interested on how you got into

this theory of the Smiley Face Killer.

Well, that's a great question.

I kind of followed this trajectory of the occult.

And while I was researching my most recent book, which is called Children of the Beast,

it's about Alastair Crilly's influence on the 20th century,

I kept seeing the Smiley Face.

And I had remembered this whole series of cases that was mentioned for the last maybe 15, 20 years

publicly as a smiley face killers. And that's really how I got my start. I probably started

researching in early 2016. And the reason these series of cases of young men disappearing

and then being found in water got the the name smiley face killers is because the original

two or three well it's really three it's a jeff ganon d'worte out of new york and gilbertson

they noticed that in some of these

disappearances and the drown finding the bodies in water there's been a smiley face.

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