And for perspective on today's meetings at the White House and the negotiations to end the war in Ukraine, we get two views now.

Charles Cupsion served on the National Security Council staff during the Obama and Clinton administrations.

He's now a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and a Georgetown University professor.

And David Kramer was Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor

during the George W. Bush administration. He's now executive director of the George W. Bush Institute,

a think tank that focuses on domestic and international issues. It's great to have you both here.

Charles, we'll start with you. Do you believe this proposal on the table, Ukraine surrendering territory in exchange

for as yet vague promises of security, do you believe that is a credible pathway toward a lasting

peace? I would say that it's a framework that has potential. There are a lot of details that we just

don't know yet. And as a consequence,

we don't know whether this is going to flame out at the next level when Putin, Zelensky,

and Trump sit down, or whether there really is a foundation here for moving forward. I think

there are two critical issues that one needs to focus on. One is this land swap

that has been put forward. No question that it would be a bitter pill for Zelensky to seed

land in Donetsk, about 30 percent of it. Ukraine still controls over to Russia, even though many, many tens of thousands of Ukrainians

have died on those territories, defending that territorial, industrial important area,

minerals, resources, and strategic importance, because it's a front line that's fortified.

The other key issue, and this in some

ways, I think is the $6 million question, is what is Putin prepared to accept on the other side

of that ceasefire line? Is Putin ready to let Ukraine go? Is Putin ready to acknowledge that he

has lost the 80% of Ukraine that is still Ukraine?

Let it have the army that it desires. Let it have Western security guarantees.

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