I became really obsessed with how can I make a reader belly laugh and I would just go I

would just write and I would just pray to God that I would surprise myself you you know, that I could startle myself with a laugh.

Welcome back to Working. I'm your host Ronald Young Jr.

And I am your other host Isaac Butler.

Isaac, wonderful to be chatting with you again today.

As always.

Tell me, whose voice did we hear at the top of the show? That was Sally

Franson. She's a novelist. Her first novel wonderful novel called The

Ladies Guide to Selling Out came out a few years ago.

She has a new novel out called Big in Sweden.

She has also, got to say, my best friend from graduate school.

And so you know, when your best friend from graduate school

has a new big novel coming out, you got to invite them on your podcast

I'm sure you have other reasons to want to talk to Sally Franson right now.

In fact I do beyond the fact that Sally's just a wonderful writer. She's very funny, she's really joyous, she's taught a lot of writing, so she has a lot of great craft stuff, which I think you'll hear in this interview. Her current novel has a very odd Genesis, which is,

get ready for this, ready, Ronald.

Sally won a Swedish reality show competition

where Americans go to Sweden to like discover their roots. It's on Swedish

public television. It's a huge hit over there. She's like a minor celebrity in

Sweden and this novel is about a fiction She's like a minor celebrity in Sweden,

and this novel is about a fictional person

going on a fictional Swedish reality show

...