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Forcing myself to read my workout loud I think makes things tighter ultimately. You can have 12 great lines of poetry but if you read it out loud and it feels lateral lateral lateral lateral you have to do some you can figure out oh it's just these three lines you don't need the 12.

Welcome back to working I'm your host Karen Han and I'm your other host Isaac Butler. Hi Isaac how are you? I'm going to go with tired tired that's how I am tired how are you? Yeah I feel the same way it's been a weirdly long week even though like if not for like a really good reason because you did so much epic trick or treating. I wish I wish. Did you did you do a costume any costumes going on? Yeah my boyfriend and I went as I was Ricky jupe and he was Jean Jacket from Nope.

Awesome. My family went as Harry Potter characters at my daughter's insistent so she was Harry Potter I was Snape so but I because I was Snape I just figured out that we should do Alan Rickman themes every year and like next year I could be Alan Rickman and die hard. Yeah she could be Bruce Willis and maybe Ann could be Nakatomi Tower I don't know about to say exactly that yeah. All right so who did you talk to for this week's episode?

I talked to the wonderful poet Jay Hopestein and so that there's no confusion during the interview she just goes by Jenny and every day life so but but Jay Hopestein is her professional name and she is the author of a recent poetry collection on becoming a mother that's really wonderful titled little astronaut.

Oh wow well I cannot wait to hear your conversation but before we get to that what can we look forward to in the slate plus segment this week.

There's a lot in the slate plus segment this week we've been very generous with our slate plus listeners you know I thought little astronaut is so conceptually unified it is just about pregnancy and early parenting and marriage in the midst of all that.

So I just wanted to know what she did with all the ideas that weren't right for the book while she was writing the book and that led to a really wide reaching conversation about Greek myths the ethics of writing about your family.

You know if you're not into poetry and you're kind of intimidated by it where you might start all sorts of things like that so so there's a lot going on this week.

Well that's fascinating and slate plus members will hear that at the end of the episode but if you are not a slate plus member but want to hear that segment why not join slate plus.

As a member you will get no ads on any of our podcasts unlimited reading on the slate site and member exclusive episodes and segments from our show and other shows like the waves culture gap fest and amicus.

Sign up for slate plus now at slate.com slash working plus to access all slate content and support our work.

Alright let's hear Isaac's conversation with poet J. Hope Stein.

Jenny Stein thank you so much for joining us today I'm working to talk about your process.

Thanks for having me.

So as they say in the sound of music let's start at the very beginning you are a poet how did you come to poetry did you always love poetry did you have a kind of epiphanic moment when you discovered it or what.

Well I did love poetry as a kid but to be honest like it wasn't until college that I started to really get into it.

I had a friend named Benjamin Vardigan who was like my friend in college who was a poet already in college he's a really good poet.

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