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How much of any of this can you take as truth? How much of documentary inherently reduces people to spectacle?

There's several moments in our film where our own subjects kind of speak back to us about the way we're framing things, you know?

Welcome back to Working. I'm your host, Karen Han. And I'm your other host, June Thomas. Hello, June. So judging from the clip that we just heard, it sounds like we'll be talking about documentary filmmaking this week.

Hey, Karen, you are 100% correct. The voice we heard belongs to Morgan M. Page who co-wrote the documentary Framing Agnes.

We will also hear from Chase joint her co-author who also directed and appears in the film.

So Framing Agnes, it's a really genuinely fascinating and beautiful film, which as we'll discuss in the interview is hard to describe, but it's not at all difficult to watch and to enjoy.

It's a film about trans history. It's starting point is a series of interviews that happened at the UCLA gender clinic in the 1950s, but it asks a lot of really interesting questions about whether it's even possible to tell society as a whole, the story of a subsection of the population who are themselves, of course, very diverse with honesty, accuracy, integrity.

One of the many ways in which it's a little different is that some of the participants in the 1950s study are embodied by contemporary trans performers who also talk about their own lives and their own experiences.

I hope everyone will check out Framing Agnes because it is just truly fascinating. Anyone interested in documentary will I think find this film really interesting.

Yeah, that sounds so so interesting and I can't wait to hear your conversation with the two of them, but before we get to that, what can we look forward to in the slate plus segment this week?

So this film is the product of many collaborations, but Morgan and Chase live not only in different countries, but on different continents.

Oh, wow. So I was really curious about how their collaboration worked and they told me some really interesting stuff about how they worked together and how they worked with other people too.

That's so funny and also feels like a such a high hurdle to have to clear and I'm very, very excited to hear that.

Slate plus members will hear that at the end of the episode, but if you're not a slate plus member, but do want to hear that segment, why not join slate plus?

As a member, you'll get no ads on any of our podcasts, unlimited reading on the slate site and member exclusive episodes and segments from our show and other shows like the waves, culture gap fest and amicus.

Sign up for slate plus now at slate.com slash working plus to access all of slate's content and support our work.

All right, let's hear June's conversation with Chase joint and Morgan page.

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