My name is Mark Vesente. I'm a director, producer, writer, and troublemaker. I'm most known as the director of the film What the Bleep Do We Know, and as one of the next-team whistleblowers featured in the HBO series, Aval. Let's just say, I know a thing or two about cults. I don't consider myself a cult expert, but I'm definitely an expert in being screwed over, waking up, and

knowing how to spot them.

And let me tell you, they're everywhere.

My mission is to help people see patterns of abuse across multiple contexts.

From personal to family, to group, to societal.

It's all the same pattern at every scale.

As you'll hear, I have a pretty salty approach to most things.

So there might be some blasphemy.

One or two sacred cows might get knocked over, and there'll likely be some foul language.

You never quite know what you're going to get, because it really does depend on what the fuck is on my mind.

Hello everyone, welcome back to the podcast.

Today's guest is someone I'm genuinely excited to speak with Dr. Cynthia Mathieu.

Is that correct?

Mathieu?

Yes.

Yes, perfect.

Good.

Wow.

You haven't lost your French.

Well, you know, I only recently came across her work, and it immediately hit a nerve in the best possible way

because Dr. Mathieu is a psychologist and professor of organizational behavior who specializes

in what's often called dark leadership. The presence of psychopathic traits in corporate and

...