We're always in a way oscillating between dynamics and form.

So I mean, one way to do it is post-modernism is a great explosion of dynamics.

It's a resistance to the formalism, not so much of religion for them, but of modernity itself.

That modernity itself, they thought, had become too formalized and needed to be broken open.

Now, could you argue what you see on the streets of our cities right now

is an explosion, a very negative one of too much dynamics?

Or that famous interviewer that we've talked about, the young six-foot white man asking people,

what if I said I was a six-foot five Chinese woman?

What would you say?

Oh, I'm fine with that.

I mean, that's dynamics run amok.

That's dynamics gone mad, right?

Welcome back to the Word on Fire show.

I'm Brandon Votte, the host and the content director at Word on Fire.

Joining us is his excellency Bishop Robert Barron.

Always great to see you.

Hey, Brandon. Good morning.

Great to see you.

You know, it's good to see you digitally, of course, but I finally got to make a trip out there

to Santa Barbara a few weeks ago and spend some time in person.

Usually we get together, I don't know, every two or three months or so, but with COVID,

I haven't seen you in many, many months, but I was out there with a couple

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