This is wins and losses with clay Travis.

Clay talks with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.

Now here's clay Travis.

Welcome in wins and losses podcast.

I appreciate all of you hanging out with us.

I believe we're coming up right on 40 of these long form conversations that we have had.

And the feedback on them has been phenomenal.

If this is the first one that you're listening to, I'd encourage you to go check them out

from the world of sports, media, politics, business, and also some focus on COVID,

which is what we're going to do again, part two with Ovic Roy.

And before I bring him in, I got to say, it's rare I get praise for anything that I do for my wife

in any part of my life at all.

But after our first conversation, which we had back in August, she said,

I wish everybody in the country could hear him and could hear that conversation

because it cut through so much of the noise and got to the essence of COVID, our response,

how to balance out going back to school from the perspective of August.

It now has been whatever it is nearly six months since we last talked.

We still are in the throes of much of the COVID related hysteria, I would call it.

And certainly we're now changing administrations because we're recording the day after.

The day after the Biden inauguration.

And so Ovic, again, you're coming at my wife's request for part two of this discussion.

So there's high there's high potential here, but also high danger because I know for sure

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