On the hill far away still an old rugged cross the emblem of suffering and shame and I love that old cross where the dearest and death for the

loss of certainunt dinners was

This is Winnie Wilkinson. She's originally from Jamaica, but she spent half her life in New York City

before moving up to St. Albans, Vermont, where black people make up 2.52% of the population.

Winnie has family all over the country, and she has a lot of family members who have been harassed by the police, which is what I went to talk with her about.

But it's not what we talked about. Instead, we talked about God and about slavery,

two things that have a profound impact on how Winnie thinks about just about

everything else, including police brutality. Winnie is my favorite kind of Christian,

the radically tolerant, loving kind, the seven days a week kind of Christian.

I asked her why she'd want to talk with a middle-aged white lady about slavery and

police brutality and this is what she said.

I'm a middle-aged black woman, how about that?

You know, we could we should say that.

Two middle-aged ladies.

I'm sitting in a nice environment, trees, a little waterfall with fishes inside, a middle-age black woman,

but not a middle-aged woman, and we're having a conversation.

And I would cling to the all rugged cross

and exchange it someday for my crown. Yes. Thank you Jesus. Thank you Lord. Here's Winnie Wilkinson. I was born in the Caribbean. My family relocated to the United States. We lived in Queens, New York, I got married, and then I lived in Long Island.

And I used to work on Wall Street, New York. And after 9-11, I relocated to Vermont because I read a newspaper article of times that

Vermont is the best place to live and so I find that was very intriguing.

I just needed a different pace and change life.

And when I arrived here as a black woman,

...