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Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots and Spectators Daily and sometimes more than daily politics podcast.

I'm Katie Balls and I'm joined by James LaSyfer and the spectators Stephen Daisley, who joins us live from just outside Glasgow.

Today we are talking about their S&P after we had the news around lunchtime that Joanna Cherry had been sacked from the

SMP's Westminster front bench. We didn't know this from the SMP press release. In fact, the

one that went around only told us about the new additions. But Joanna Cherry took to social media

to make clear that she had been pushed out and it wasn't a decision she was happy with.

Stephen, when we're looking at this, what do you think the

main implications are? Because there's been growing tensions in the party for a while now,

a on transgender issues, but also in terms of the Sturgeon salmon. So what should we read from this?

I think this is generally being seen as a real pushback from the Sturgeon camp on the issue of transgender rights.

Nicholas Sturgeon is very much in what is sometimes called the Wokies camp by internal critics

within the SNP, those people who take a very, you might say, hardline or firm stance on the

idea of trans rights, whereas Joanna Cherry is very much a gender-critical

feminist and has raised a dissenting voice about some of the reforms that the leadership of the

SNP is wanting to pursue on gender self-identification and also on representation on public boards in

Scotland, which I've written about in a piece that's went on Coffee House

today. That has been rumbling for a long time. A lot of it behind the scenes, some of it not

behind the scenes, and on social media is perhaps not the best forum for these things,

and that has made the debate even more accurate, perhaps, that it needed to be.

Joanna Cherry is also,

...