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The Ezra Klein Show

Wilco’s Jeff Tweedy Wants You to Be Bad at Something. It’s for Your Own Good.

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 2 July 2021

⏱️ 72 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Recently, I picked up Jeff Tweedy’s “How to Write One Song.” It was a bit of a lark. Tweedy is the frontman for Wilco, one of my favorite bands, but I’m not a songwriter, and I don’t plan to become one. But, unexpectedly, I loved the book. It’s the most generous and approachable guide to the creative process I’ve read. It’s also relentlessly practical: To Tweedy, this really is a process, replete with practices that you can enjoy doing daily. As a writer of a very different sort, I’ve had a blast with them. So I asked Tweedy to come on the show to talk about creativity, ands his approach to it. He debunks the idea that suffering is necessary (or even useful) for the creative process, talks through his relentless search for inspiration, sings and analyzes a few of my favorite songs, analyzes his relationship with his mother, shares some of his tricks for finding fresh language for old ideas and even convinces me to write some poetry. This is a fun one. Book recommendations: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes A Temple of Texts by William H. Gass The MacGuffin by Stanley Elkin

Transcript

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0:00.0

Let's see.

0:17.8

I'm Ezra Klein and this is the Ezra Klein Show.

0:23.1

There are these ideas about creativity that I've always been suspicious of.

0:38.2

For instance, the making art requires immense suffering.

0:41.8

I've been depressed.

0:42.8

It never seems to me that the optimal mindset for difficult acts of creation is I can't

0:47.4

get out of bed.

0:48.7

But the idea that art comes from somewhere mystical, the product of profound and ineffable

0:57.5

talent and inspiration, I don't want to believe that one.

1:02.3

But I've seen what happens when I try and draw and I know people who are read artists.

1:07.6

It lurks for me.

1:09.5

In some ways, it intimidates me.

1:11.8

I can't do what they can do.

1:13.8

So why do any of it at all?

1:17.2

Recently, and pretty randomly, I picked up Jeff Tweedie's book, How to Write One Song.

1:21.8

If you don't know Jeff Tweedie, he's the frontman for the Grammy Award winning band Wilco,

1:25.5

which is a band I love and have loved for years.

1:28.2

He's played in Uncle Tupelo, released a bunch of solo albums, produced other people's

1:31.8

great records.

1:32.8

It's got me to pick up the book.

1:34.8

But I really didn't expect it to be such a delight.

1:37.8

I really didn't.

...

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